Curse

ZainAhmed · May 28, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

The EULA also outlines the terms of service does it not? There is no issue of that being questionable, whats more the 'legality' of EULA in Europe only gets questioned when the purchaser didn't have the opportunity to read said EULA before making the purchase...

Did you ask to see a copy of the EULA before you bought Guild Wars? Here's a hint for you, it was available on the Guild Wars website... that is to say, you can't argue that they forced the agreement on you.

You had every opportunity to read it, and more importantly you had an OBLIGATION to do so.

Again, you didn't have to buy their product... nobody forced you to buy it, nobody put a gun to your head and demanded that you agree to the EULA. More importantly, that rather standard (though crappy) portion of the EULA has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on the issue of banned botters.

NCsoft is the judge,jury and executioner, if I'm not mistaken or at least so it seems. And on the issue of rules enforcement in their game, on their servers... who are you suggesting would be better placed to do such?

As for providing proof, they very well should provide evidence of your banned behavior where applicable IF YOU REQUEST IT, in the same way that they'll review their handling of your banning IF YOU REQUEST IT.

Oh, I see... you committed a virtual crime, in a virtual world to obtain virtual money? And the NCsoft response was to throw your virtual ass in the virtual pokey (slang for jail or prison).

Here's the thing, a full account costs $20-30 often enough now days, Guild Wars is pretty cheap if you want to look at the actual replacement cost of the account... tell me just how cheap do you think it is for NCsoft to actually have to deal with bots, cheats, scammers and scumbags? How cheap do you think it is for their support staff to have to review all those banned accounts that are demanding that they did nothing wrong?

Yeah, that's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing right... it costs them REAL RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING MONEY, your virtual crime isn't so 'virtual' anymore is it?

I guess I should have lived up to your expectations of being hateful... but the truth should serve well enough to illustrate how clueless you're being on the issue.

No actual botters are here on the forums afaik, they all went and bought a new account and maybe are, right as i'm posting here, making money again. Who is on the forums QQing? Stupid, foolish, curious or probably innocent people who are waiting for lift on ban...but I am starting to believe that these bans are very profitable for Anet/NCsoft no matter what the cost for catching and "dealing" with bots or whatever shit you said...

Laraja · May 28, 2010, 04:31 PM // 16:31

No sympathy here for people who knew botting could get them banned, but did it anyway. You were playing Russian roulette and finally spun the chamber with the bullet. There is no one else to blame but yourself, so man or woman up and accept reponsibility for breaking the rules.

cormac ap dunn · May 28, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

Ijeez it's like you slip and fall and now your RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing evil but you never meant to slip but no one give a shit, it just happened.

a slip is when you do it by accident, to download a botting program is not an "OOPS i accidentally downloaded and used this bot i had to set up meticulously" bit of an invalid point there, you had to knowingly and willingly do this. and as far as the degrees the murder analogy though highly inappropriate makes a point killing is killing you can do it a little or alot but the crime is still called murder. you can bot a little or alot, but its all still botting. Cheater gets the slap on the wrist, he cheats again, but if all the cheaters are wiped out publicly then guess who is tempted to bot? not any who hear about what happened to the last bunch of botters! sorry these folks are an example, but its an example that works.

snaek · May 28, 2010, 04:38 PM // 16:38

^no, a slip is when you make a bad judgement call (for whatever reason), and regret it afterwards.

ZainAhmed · May 28, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falynn Firestorm

No sympathy here for people who knew botting could get them banned, but did it anyway. You were playing Russian roulette and finally spun the chamber with the bullet. There is no one else to blame but yourself, so man or woman up and accept reponsibility for breaking the rules.

Yea there are stills bots out there...and many more coming soon.

I didn't realize it the instant I injected that stupid dll to GW that I'm doing something terribly wrong and I will get banned...of course you wouldn't... but after 6-7 times of dshotting patient spirit I said RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO this I'm not getting banned for this...look where loyalty to fair playing got me...
the punishment is too harsh...

cormac ap dunn · May 28, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

but I am starting to believe that these bans are very profitable for Anet/NCsoft no matter what the cost for catching and "dealing" with bots or whatever shit you said...

I for one would be happy if those banned went out, purchased a new game (IP bans are a B*tch) and provide a little extra capitol for GW2. if they slip through, guess what will likely happen if they bot again? yup, ban. and weeeee more entertainment for those that abide the rules.

Zarion Silverarrow · May 28, 2010, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falynn Firestorm

No sympathy here for people who knew botting could get them banned, but did it anyway. You were playing Russian roulette and finally spun the chamber with the bullet. There is no one else to blame but yourself, so man or woman up and accept reponsibility for breaking the rules.

No need to get your post count up by posting what almost every person that agrees with all bans 100% is saying...

We get it,we got banned because EULA said so.Stop repeating it,it ain't necessary since we understand it.

Make up your own opinion.

If you want to keep posting it,then whatever,but keep in mind your post won't have more effect than the one before similar to yours (with the exeption if someone didn't fully read it or your explaining yourself,etc) but since your post has been posted several times,no need.

The real discussion here is;

Does a first-timer-little-time-boting-took-back-the-action-before-the-bans...er deserve the same punishment as a repeat offender-24/7 boter-gained IRL $$-gained many titles-gained in game money-didn't-feel-"sorry"-until-bans..er?

Answering that with a yes or no is plain ignorant and lazy IMO

Riot Narita · May 28, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

if someone just tried out stupidity, out of curiousity, out of temptation etc etc ... give them the approriate time...

No. You get caught cheating, you get banned. It's that simple. Everyone knows it. No need to measure how bad your cheating was, and come up with a menu of different punishments to suit.

In any case how would A-Net implement that?

Let people bot, until it reaches some limit at which point they give you ban? In other words condone botting, as long as its "not too much".

What limit should they set for how much you can bot or cheat? How would they track how close people are to that limit? Why should they spend time and resources on that?

I don't want them to waste time and effort on that, and why should I (or any player who doesn't cheat)? That's time and effort that would be better spent on GW1, GW2 and support of regular (non-cheating) players. Cheats don't deserve sympathy, never mind actual resources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

jeez it's like you slip and fall and now your RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing evil but you never meant to slip but no one give a shit, it just happened.

No.

Nobody bots by accident. They know its cheating. They know the possible consequences. If they get banned, it should come as no surprise. It should also come as no surprise when people don't "give a shit".

Zarion Silverarrow · May 28, 2010, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

No. You get caught cheating, you get banned. It's that simple. Everyone knows it. No need to meaure how bad your cheating was, and come up with a menu of different punishments to suit.

In any case how would A-Net implement that?

Let people bot, until it reaches some limit at which point they give you ban? In other words condone botting, as long as its "not too much".

What limit should they set for how much you can bot or cheat? How would they track how close people are to that limit? Why should they spend time and resources on that?

I don't want them to waste time and effort on that, and why should I (or any player who doesn't cheat)? That's time and effort that would be better spent on GW1, GW2 and support of regular (non-cheating) players. Cheats don't deserve sympathy, never mind actual resources.

No.

Nobody bots by accident. They know its cheating. They know the possible consequences. If they get banned, it should come as no surprise. It should also come as no surprise when people don't "give a shit".

Is it that hard to think this:

Ban a first timer,little time botting person for 2 weeks,he does it again,perma ban.

Everyones thinking;either perma ban,or alot of 2 week bans...just mix em up,it ain't that hard to have an idea yourself.

PS: On the article that appears on your loggin-page,click it

!!!!! it actually says they got new staff for bots,so no resources would be lost...just people doing their work.

cormac ap dunn · May 28, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

Yea there are stills bots out there...and many more coming soon.

I didn't realize it the instant I injected that stupid dll to GW that I'm doing something terribly wrong and I will get banned...of course you wouldn't... but after 6-7 times of dshotting patient spirit I said RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO this I'm not getting banned for this..
:

you did realize botting was wrong... of course you would... as soon as you used it you realized the possibility to get banned was pretty real

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

look where loyalty to fair playing got me...
the punishment is too harsh...

and this... THIS is funny, using a bot was fair play? breaking the rules was loyalty? you really have a loose grip on these concepts! the ban for you is probably best, hate to be on a team where you go charging in saying HIT OUR MONK HE'S RIGHT HERE!

Kharmin · May 28, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

Is it that hard to think this:

Ban a first timer,little time botting person for 2 weeks,he does it again,perma ban.

Everyones thinking;either perma ban,or alot of 2 week bans...just mix em up,it ain't that hard to have an idea yourself.

What's to determine a "first timer?" Duration of use? Amount of swag obtained? Level of cheating? There are just too many variables for the Company to maintain/monitor on a case-by-case basis. It is easier to disallow bots via EULA and then enforce it via ban.

Zarion Silverarrow · May 28, 2010, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

THIS coming from you? you have repeated your whiney plea to the community a hundred times, and you think that statement is repetative?
you need to accept that the vast majority of people see your ban as appropriate, not dismiss it because you don't like the answers or keep asking till someone sees it your way.

Yea,quote that part only from my post...read the rest.

I said I wasn't going to reply back to you,but anyways...

Here it is in summary for you:

Don't repeat what OTHERS say unless you want to CHANGE it in some way.

Don't keep repeating what YOU said unless people are not understanding you or you want to say it in other words.

The point;if your gona post something,post your opinion,not what everyone else has been posting since the beggining.

Another Felldspar · May 28, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Unfortunately, it is an appropriate punishment to permanently ban accounts for botting. I don't enjoy seeing the fall-out, I'm not going to make fun of the people that have lost their accounts, I know that some people did indeed fill up their HoM before starting to bot, and for those I feel a true sympathy.

But, that doesn't make the botting okay. Botting affects the game world, and thereby the other players in that game world. Stopping it must be done. Perma Bans are the only punishment that reflects the seriousness of the gaming offense. This is the most odious of all of the infractions that could take place. It deserves the strongest punishment, mainly so that anyone that cares about their account will decide against using a bot in the future. Even for a minute or just a chest or two.

Offensive names deserve their 3-day time out. Bots, dupes, hacks deserve permanent banning. It's appropriate.

cormac ap dunn · May 28, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

those aren't accident people actually intended to commit such a crime and had no idea what they were doing AND should obviously be sent to jail for life like a perma ban. see how that feels?

you intended to bot, end of story, you intentionally did what you did, semantics will not excuse that you chose everything that you did, no one forced you, no one made you do it. now you sit cold and lonely on the outside of the game, all your achievements all your work lost for a choice!, people with no choice? they deserve lenience. people who knew the risks and chose the wrong path? they got what they knew would come. in the end you can take what happens and make yourself a better gamer, or you can choose to kick and scream and muff your ears and ignore your choices and move to the next cheat in the next game. either way, you were banned as were every one else who botted, justly, by anet, who had observed your bad decision, and made the call that is their right to make.

Nerel · May 28, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

Yea there are stills bots out there...and many more coming soon.

I didn't realize it the instant I injected that stupid dll to GW that I'm doing something terribly wrong and I will get banned...of course you wouldn't... but after 6-7 times of dshotting patient spirit I said RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO this I'm not getting banned for this...look where loyalty to fair playing got me...
the punishment is too harsh...

You didn't read about what the bot actually did before you downloaded and used it? You had to have a clue that it would give you an unfair advantage in PvP, right?
If the answer is 'Yes' then yes, you did realize that you were doing something terribly wrong.

I understand what you're mean when you say that you saw how effective the bot was and decided not to use it, that is almost a commendable decision... but loyalty? No, the loyal players are the ones that knew better than to ever touch a bot. Sorry.

Have you been in contact with NCsoft support? If you honestly only used the bot long enough to d-shot half a dozen times they very well might overturn your permanent ban or reduce it to something less severe.

Sir Cusfreak · May 28, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

There is always an appropriate punishment for every crime...maybe not 100% true but that's how the system is supposed to work...so saying that killing is killing whether you do it a little or alot and all botters should get perma ban...idts

The perma ban IS by all means an approriate punishment. theres no 'killing' analogy needed. YES, ALL botters should be banned. Period. No execptions, no 'I only botted for this', or for that, or for drinking in a GH, or anything. End of story. Youre guilty of botting, it wasn't an accident. I don't think theres any part of this that's hard to understand. Say it with me: "HAPPY DHUUMSDAY!" now say it again: "HAPPY DHUUMSDAY" and repeat that until you can REALLY FEEL
it. It's over, you're done, it's right and correct and good for the rest of us. move on.

cormac ap dunn · May 28, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

You didn't read about what the bot actually did before you downloaded and used it? You had to have a clue that it would give you an unfair advantage in PvP, right?
If the answer is 'Yes' then yes, you did realize that you were doing something terribly wrong.

I understand what you're mean when you say that you saw how effective the bot was and decided not to use it, that is almost a commendable decision... but loyalty? No, the loyal players are the ones that knew better than to ever touch a bot. Sorry.

Have you been in contact with NCsoft support? If you honestly only used the bot long enough to d-shot half a dozen times they very well might overturn your permanent ban or reduce it to something less severe.

i think to back out on this issue due to the amout of cheating would send the message to all cheaters that there is a degree of cheating that is acceptable, he said it himself, there will be new bots, that are less detectable, know what that means? new excuses to push the cheat, and who is inclined to do that most? those that already cheat.

maddigit · May 28, 2010, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Let's say they ban for two weeks a first time botter. Right there it's telling EVERYONE to go ahead and use bots/cheat once, try to fool us, you get caught you get 2 week ban. Hell then EVERYONE will take their 1 shot at botting see how long they get away with it until they get their simple 2 week ban.

So people would use bots/cheat if that was the case knowing they'd be back in two weeks. It just doesn't work.

It's a bummer you all lost your time/money/items, but we all know the rules.

Get another account, start over if you don't have an IP ban in effect too.

And follow the EULA.

Phaern Majes · May 28, 2010, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZainAhmed

It was an accident in my mind.

So, when you deliberately (that's the key word here) went out and found a site to download a bot from - that was an accident? You MADE a choice to bot, not just accidentally started using one. So your analogies to accidental murders is irrelevant; you made a choice to bot. Being ignorant of possible consequences does not excuse you from responsibility. If you kill someone and didn't know that it was illegal, you'll still go to prison. Sure accidents are another case, but your botting was no accident.

If you want to play again, go buy another account. Play it for 6 months or so without the use of bots and then petition ANet to get your account back. Prove you can play fairly and maybe then I'd be sympathetic to your original account possibly getting paroled.

But lets face it most people who are banned are just going to say "Screw it, I'm not paying to have to start over." And these same people are likely to not buy GW2 anymore because they won't get their HoM and may harbor bad feelings towards ANet for getting banned.

But look at this from the unbanned communities perspective. A ton of botters have been kicked out of the game for good. All those people who caused us years of grief in pvp, have botted endlessly to farm, and to obtain titles, they are all now gone from the game. How is that a bad thing for those of us who support fair game play? And now those same people won't be joining GW2? Sounds like a win/win to me.

QQ away, you got caught. Doesn't matter if you only did it once or you did it for years. You did it deliberately and reaped your just rewards, gratz.

Rocky Raccoon · May 28, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow

The real discussion here is;

Does a first-timer-little-time-boting-took-back-the-action-before-the-bans...er deserve the same punishment as a repeat offender-24/7 boter-gained IRL $$-gained many titles-gained in game money-didn't-feel-"sorry"-until-bans..er?

Answering that with a yes or no is plain ignorant and lazy IMO

Did you accidentally download the bot? No, you didn't. You had to make a concerted effort to use the bot for whatever reason. The rules state that is not allowed (no disclaimer for degree of use anywhere). You deserve the account cancellation.